Paying to pollute

In its effort to fight global warming, the European Union wants to get the so-called BRICS states (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) on board. The EU's climate Chief Connie Hedegaard is travelling on Monday to Brazil. 

DW spoke to Hedegaard on Brazil's role and European expectations ahead of the Rio +20 environmental conference amid an ongoing row over the EU's controversial carbon emission scheme for airlines.

DW: What role could Brazil play in building a sustainable future?

Connie Hedegaard: Brazil has a key role to play as a big economy and also as a growing economy. With that role also comes a big responsibility. In the final week of negotiations at the Durban climate talks, we saw that Brazil was the first BRICS country that said it could be legally bound by the new climate agreement starting in 2020. In that sense, Brazil will have a very important political role to play.

The United Nations Conference on Sustainable Development (Rio +20) will take place in June 2012. What would make it a success from the European point of view?

We hope that Rio +20 will mark a paradigm shift in the discussion on global development as the world will need a lot of growth in the years to come. The ongoing population growth and expansion of the middle classes are good but they are also putting a lot of strain on our natural resources.

We hope that this conference could set us on the right track toward a greener economy. We also think that a success in Rio would mean that participants agree to work toward sustainable development goals. Another success would be if we didn't only define long-term goals but if we also decided on some very tangible things that would bring about immediate change. One example would be: define a target for having sustainable energy for all by 2030. That could lead to immediate action after Rio.

The EU now requires all airlines to buy pollution permits to fly to Europe. Are you surprised by the level of hostility with which this decision was met abroad?

We're not surprised by the hostility, but it's clear that some countries don't like it. They say they would prefer a global scheme. But the European Union has been fighting for a global scheme since 1997. It was only after we saw that there was no global agreement that we made our own, regional scheme. If we could reach global consensus at the level of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), it would be a very happy ending.

The EU has suggested that it would change its own rules if ICAO would indeed introduce global regulations?

The official EU line is that once a global system is enforced, the EU system will no longer be relevant. But we are not changing our scheme just because some countries say they would like to discuss a global system. That is why I am challenging these countries that can unite against the European system to come up with an alternative within ICAO. We'll see what happens.

I am absolutely sure that most passengers flying with me from Munich to Brasilia would say that paying a couple of euros for the pollution caused by this long-distance flight was fair. The amount we are talking about is less than what a cup of coffee at the Munich airport would cost.

Do you think that the only way to make people think about environment is to make them pay for pollution?

If does not cost anything to pollute the air, to pour chemicals into water and to destroy rivers, then people will just keep doing it. If there is a price attached to pollution, then companies, cities, and countries will start to think differently.

If we want the world to change its behavior, we need to get the pricing right. If you are efficient, it will pay off, if you are inefficient, it will cost you something. That's the kind of incentive we need.

Interview: Nádia Pontes/ tt
Editor: Sean Sinico