Released Russians say swap deal was a 'difficult dilemma'

Ilya Yashin said he had mixed feelings about the prisoner swap because he was grateful he was freed but that others who were seriously ill in Russian jails should have also been freed.

The exchange represented a "difficult dilemma," Yashin said. "It encourages Putin to take more hostages."

Yashin maintained that he fought for his right to live in Russia until the very last day he spent in jail.

The 41-year-old said he had received "several tens of thousands" of letters in prison, saying that that was "not an exaggeration."

"It was my source of strength. I'd receive these letters and I'd recharge my batteries, my health and my emotions. It helped me to survive every day," he said.

You can catch a recap of a few of the highlight quotes from the press conference here with freed Russian opposition figures Vladimir Kara-Murza, Ilya Yashin and Andrei Pivovarov.

Meanwhile, in related news, human rights lawyer Ivan Pavlov, who defended Alexei Navalny's Corruption Foundation before he fled Russia, told DW on Friday that he believed Vladimir Putin would try to portray himself as the winner in negotiations for the swap. 

"I think ... he looked like a winner in this exchange," Pavlov said, albeit also stressing he was glad that the Russian dissidents had been freed.

"Putin shows his real face when he just divided Russian citizes [into] two groups. One group is desirable and another group, like human rights activists, human rights activists, ... anti-war activists, [is] undesirable for the regime," he said. "And they bring home desirable Russians and took aways Russian people who [are] undesirable." 

Pavlov said he believed Putin was hoping to send a message to the international community that he's someone "able to make peaceful negotiation, and he wants to demonstrate a good example that he's a person that the international community can speak with." 

"So it's a sign for international community and also for internal community, for internal audience also, because he [brought] Russians home," Pavlov said.

Kara-Murza responded to a DW reporter's question about his health  —  since his wife and his lawyer repeatedly raised concerns that his health had deteriorated when he was in prison — saying that he doesn't "have a habit of complaining about health."

"Everything is fine as much as it can be," he said, considering that he was told by doctors at the prison last year that he had roughly one and a half years to live because of the lasting effects of the two near-fatal poisonings.

In 2015 and 2017, Kara-Murza suffered two poisonings and developed polyneuropathy, a condition that deadens the feeling in his limbs.

He listed several others — including Alexei Nalany — he said were also targeted by the Russian security services to physically eliminate Russian President Vladimir Putin's opponents.

Kara-Murza says in the little over the last two years he spent in prison, he was allowed to talk to his wife only once, and his children twice.

He said gesturing to Andrei Pivovarov that he has also learned that Pivovarov was only allowed to speak to his family a few times over the course of the last two years.

Kara-Murza said locking them up in prisons not only harmed the people in prisons but also pained their families similarly.

 

Ilya Yashin tackled a reporter's question — about whether they would receive ID cards in Germany or what their current legal situation in the country was — with humor, saying that while bureaucracy is important, "that's your life." 

"For us, there's no bureaucracy whatsoever in our lives — we understand very well that when there's political will, it will always prevail over laws and bureaucratic obstacles," Yashin said.

He went on to say he no longer had an international passport or valid ID. "When I was arrested, they (Russian security personnel) took away my Russian ID" and that he was currently in Germany with a "Russian identity card that is not even valid."

"You have to go to the internet to find out who I am," he quipped. "The situation is very extraordinary," Yashin said, before adding he was confident authorities sort the issue soon enough. 

The press conference in Bonn has finished in the meantime, although we'll continue to feed in some more information from the men's comments over a period of a little over an hour. 

The YouTube link is here if you would like to watch the press conference, though there's no translation available during the stream.

 

Ilya Yashin and Vladimir Kara-Murza both said during the press conference that they refused to sign confessions or statements seeking a pardon during their detention. 

"I said, I am not going to be asked to be freed, to admit any guilt, I will not go to a person I consider a tyrant, a murderer, an enemy of his own country for a favor," Yashin said. 

"I didn't sign a condition for a pardon, but I was still pardoned. We never gave our consent [to be expelled from Russia], yet here we are," Kara-Muza said. He said he'd not signed the statement either, which "spoke of admitting guilt, ... of remorse." 

Kara-Murza also said that during his roughly two years in prison, he was allowed to speak to his wife just once and his children only twice.

Ilya Yashin said it was hard to accept that he was free "because a murderer was free" — a reference to the Russian convicted of killing a man in broad daylight in Berlin in 2019 released as part of the deal — saying that he was very sad about that.

"I am also sad that over a thousand people are still in prison," he said, naming a list of people he said ought to have been at the table with them, including Alexei Navalny's lawyers.

Ever since my first day, Yashin said he maintained that "he was not ready to be exchanged."

"I don't want to be on a list" and "will not leave Russia," he said, saying he considered himself both a citizen and a patriot.

Yashin said his prison term was a fight for "my right to live in my country" and that he "sat in prison in order for my right to speak out" and the "right to live and work in my own country."

Until the very last day, he said, he'd fought for his right to stay in Russia.  

"What happened on August 1 is not an exchange. This is my expulsion from Russia against my will. My first wish in Ankara was to buy a ticket and go back to Russia."

Kara-Murza then expressed his sincere thanks to Germany and the US government  and "all of you through many years have helped to free Russian prisoners of conscience."

He said there were many more people like him who were in Russian prisons because "they have specific political view" and among those prisoners "were people who stand up against Putin's brutal war against Ukraine."

"Don't believe the lies that are disseminated by Kremlin propaganda," he told reporters.

He said he still believed in the Russian people because "I have received so many letters from people" who sent their support to him and wrote to him telling him that they were against the war in Ukraine.

The correspondence is read in Russian jails prior to delivery to prisoners, he said, meaning writing in to express support meant taking a personal risk.

Freed Russian activist Vladimir Kara-Murza said it is the "second time I think I'm in a film."

"I was in Siberia just a week ago" and "yesterday Lefortovo" and "we're here now on the wonderful Rhine river." 

"It's a surreal thing that is happening to us," he said.

He talked about the differences of living life in a free and democratic country like Germany versus living in Russia, where he said "bad traditions" have returned.

"The tradition of authoritarian power, the tradition of aggressive war, and the tradition revived again to not respect others' rights," Kara-Murza said.

Given this, he said it was refreshing to see the other side of the coin — namely that a free and democratic country like Germany "takes initiative to do anything they can to free political prisoners."

"Easy decisions are taken by dictators" but the "difference between dictatorship and democracy is that human life is the ultimate value of democracy," Kara-Murza said, adding, "This is not the case in a dictatorship."

Kara-Murza also listed the names of three other Russian political prisoners who were brought to Germany in years prior to this one.

Pivovarov ended by calling upon the international community to "talk to people in Russia."

He said simple things like education and visas for young Russians can help, "so Russians are not enemies outside the country." 

"All of us who are now freed and those freed before us  —  we need to support those who need our assistance."

"We should not wait," he said. "I think this is what we're going to do today. We are going to work towards having a Russia that is free and democratic."

Freed Russian opposition activist Andrei Pivovarov also expressed thanks to Germany, saying Chancellor Olaf Scholz met the group at the airport.

"I know there's still a lot of work that had to be done  —  it was really clear to all of us."

He thanked his friends for always being by his side because without the "support of dear ones, no one would be able to survive."

"Life was given to me again and it's very important," Pivovarov said.

He told reporters he believed the prisoner swap risked becoming an "encouragement" for other political prisoners in Russia.

He said that there were "thousands of people in Russian prisons" and that "I think they would be happy to hear that it's possible to be saved."

Andrei Pivovarov says "very happy to see you" as he kicks off his first public appearance since landing in Germany following the US-Russia prisoner swap.

"A couple of days ago — we were still in our little cells... and now we see all the people together in front of us"

"It leads to a lot of emotion — we are very happy. We are very grateful to everyone who has tried their best for this to happen to us."

Pivovarov also said that the exchange gave him hope for other political prisoners in Russia.

DW reporter Grzegorz Szymanowski said the group who arrived in Germany following the prisoner swap were taken to a hospital at 3 a.m. local time for treatment.

They arrived in Germany Thursday night, and 15 hours after their arrival, the trio was set for their first press conference.